What is wrong with the church?

My friend Jonathan Hersberger posted this note on his facebook and I asked if I could repost it here.

"So what is wrong with the church when it looks no different then the rest of the world? What happened to this radical new kind of kingdom that Jesus came to proclaim? I see so many people proclaim to be Christians, and somehow their life appears to be no different than any one elses'. They still get drunk on the weekends. They still sleep around. They still make jokes that alienate homosexuals, people from different races, and mentally disabled people.

When are we going to wake up and see how much we are damaging the body of Christ?

Why is it that people who are Christians can still drive gas-guzzling cars, waste the world's resources, and spend millions on expensive little gadgets....when they are children who are starving? How can we treat this beautiful Earth God has given us so poorly? How can we keep living so freaking comfortably when beautiful children of God are dying? How can we keep separating ourselves from what is really going on in the world?

How is it that I am typing this from my 5 month old Macbook, sitting in my dorm room which I am paying thousands of dollars to live in to go to my Christian college? Thousands of dollars that could have been used to do so many different things?

Jesus did not live a "normal," socially-acceptable, comfortable, middle-class life! So when are we going to get up and follow his freaking example? We are called to be different....but we are not.

Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes. Believe me...I'm stepping on my own as well. It's something that needs to be said though..."


COMMENTS:


Brooke Gugel wrote at 2:00am on December 7th, 2008
Thank you so much. I've been contemplating this very thing all semester and am so glad someone else seems to be caring. I'm sick of this, which is one reason i'm only going to collegefor 2 years-- but i digress not the forum,-- why do so many people claim to havea relationship with God and then slam the Truth. This note has refreshed me and given me hope. Thank you for standing up and stepping on toes. Christianity isn't about being comfortable with life as it is. Remember this note and do your best to make your actions line up with your statements. I will do the same.


Shannon Nichole Neuenschwander (Central Christian Schools) wrote at 8:13am on December 7th, 2008
Jon, you're SO right... and i've been thinking a lot about this lately, too... it especially hit me when everyone in English was arguing about how movies should be rated... some of them were actually angry... and it made me feel so dumb and stupid for caring so much about something that doesn't matter, when there are so many other things in the world that need our attention!! anyways... thanks for this... i guess i don't exactally know what to do about it yet... but i'll be thinking about it...


Kayla Byler (Pickerington North) wrote at 9:05am on December 7th, 2008
amen!


Ellie Martin (Central Christian Schools) wrote at 9:33am on December 7th, 2008
stepping on toes is what Jesus did most His life. But He did it because He loved people that were lost. Even though we proclaim that we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb; that we have salvation thought Jesus Christ; that we are "giving it all for the Lord" .. we can still be so lost. That is why God's mercies are new every morning! Hallelujah! That is why there is forgiveness. That is why He MUST have unconditional Love.These are not justification. This is GRACE.You are so right, Jon. Praise the Lord for such a cry for holiness! I pray that we begin to live a Born-again Life, living by the Son, abandoned to HIM who deserves all the Glory and Praise and Honor of our lives! He is High and Lifted Up! He shall be glorified!Thanks for stepping on my toes too, my friend :) Lets not just say "ouch" and forget about it. Lets be a generation that turns hearts to the Lord; that lives a life that reflects the realization of what redemption of sin really means! Lets live in FREEDOM to Praise Him :D


Danae King (Bluffton) wrote at 10:49am on December 7th, 2008
mmm, yes. This is something I've been wrestling with a lot ever since I got to Bluffton 3 and a half years ago. Everybody here is a "Christian," but I see very little that convinces me as such. It becomes so easy to blend in, then, that I get frustrated at myself for doing so! And being a "Mennonite" school with a large Catholic population, religious life activities often tend to embrace one group and alienate the other. And any time I see any of it happening, I can't help but thinking that this is not what Jesus had in mind.


Matthew Ryan Lehman (Hesston) wrote at 1:09pm on December 7th, 2008
Not to step on any toes, or anything...actually, I am going to deliberately step on some toes here, but why is it that there are so many notes on Facebook like this, and yet...nothing has changed?


Aislinn Joy Dunster (Central Christian Schools) wrote at 1:33pm on December 7th, 2008
i agree. it's actually part of why i'm taking time off of school for the rest of the year. i feel like i need to give back somehow whether it's helping god's animals, his people, or his earth. a lot of this i have learned through my parents about how important it is to recycle, give at least 10% of earnings to charity, share our home with whoever needs a bed or a meal, and most importantly accepting people. i think the most valuable lesson i have learned from my parents is to accept people whether they are straight, homosexual, purple, brown, white, short, fat, tall, or skinny. jon- it also frustrates me a lot on the whole aspect of how some christians think they can decide who gets into heaven or not. i believe that my homosexual and athiest friends as just as awesome people if not MORE awesome than some of my "christian" friends. that is why i hesitate to call myself a christian sometimes, i don't know what i am, i believe in something, but i don't know what it is, and right now i am perfectly happy knowing that i don't have to define my god, i just live by what i know it means to be a good person.

Danae King (Bluffton) wrote at 2:11pm on December 7th, 2008
Good question, Matt!

Jonathon McKenna (Akron, OH) wrote at 2:45pm on December 7th, 2008
"How is it that I am typing this from my 5 month old Macbook, sitting in my dorm room which I am paying thousands of dollars to live in to go to my Christian college? Thousands of dollars that could have been used to do so many different things"My recent thoughts over the past few days can really identify with this quote... the thing is, I'm even planning on saving up for a mac computer package more expensive than just a macbook... My personal passion is children/youth. I want to give my living life to them so bad!The church across the stree from the college I attend is going to be purchasing new carpet... CARPET!!! What difference does a carpet make to growing in Christ? My dream is to work in a church with cement floors!


Brooke Gugel wrote at 3:02pm on December 7th, 2008
Matt, i say it's because we're just finding our voices and searching for other people to help make our cry louder and heard. The change is happening to us as individuals and we're all trying to find the others who share out passion. Facebook is a place to do that...still don't let our voices be quieted or limited to facebook. Let God speak through our actions and let us be amazed at what God is forming. For God's work on this is just beginning


Deb Horst wrote at 3:56pm on December 7th, 2008
Ya'll need to read Shane Claiborne and Brian McClaren. They'll get you fired up. I agree with you Jon, and I am trying to figure out what it means for me, so don't think it is just your age group! I want to light fires under the butts of my own age group!!!


Matthew Ryan Lehman (Hesston) wrote at 5:25pm on December 7th, 2008
I don't know, Brooke...people have been crying out against this for thousands of years, starting all the way back with Jesus. I just feel like God's work on this can't be just beginning...as cynical as this may sound, I almost feel like I/we am/are stuck in cycle of not being able to break away from our worldly views. It seems like Facebook is just another vehicle for people to say "oh...there's a problem. Well, now that the problem has been spotted, we're good to go, moving on". I may be going too far here, but are any of us really going to sell our five-month old macbooks and not attend our thousand-dollar Mennonite colleges after reading this note? I know I am not going to. Part of the reason for that is I believe God is calling me to go to my Mennonite college, but all the same. Saying we have cancer is no replacement for chemotherapy.


David Lioi wrote at 5:33pm on December 7th, 2008
Perhaps we can look at this by comparing our possessions, college, cars, middle class upbringing etc. to our abilities also granted by God. Perhaps it is not that we should be appalled that we have abilities or possessions but that we should be concerned with how we use them. For example if I have an ability and I use it only for selfish reasons then it would be better if I didn't have it at all. However, if I use it for unselfish purposes then it has does have constructive meaning. The same goes for our possessions and all these things we have been granted. This laptop I am using now allows me to access so many resources and do so many things that I would have been unable to do otherwise, just as my right hand allows me do so many things I would have been unable to do before. I am not defending materialism, it is one of the things I most dislike about Western culture for numerous reasons. I just want to point out that while we often find ourselves disgusted with the way things are we must not forget to rejoice when God blesses.


Jonathon McKenna (Akron, OH) wrote at 6:14pm on December 7th, 2008
good point David Lioi, Matt, you are right. People have been crying out for many years and the problem still exists. "There will always be poor with you" (Jesus, Matthew 26:11). I'm not trying to change the world... I'm trying to change the world for those to whom God will call me. Helping one person is huge! HUGE! Helping two, three, four? I think lots of people don't think about the amazingly great value of changing the world for just one person.


Brooke Gugel wrote at 8:01pm on December 7th, 2008
tuche' Matt, God's work on this has been going on for a long time, people have been crying out for a long time. Maybe the financially poor have much to teach the rich,"In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!” Mark 10:25look at Mt 26:6-13; it is the story of the finianically woman who poors expensive purfume on Jesus. The disciples thought this was wrong, she should have sold it to help the finanically poor. Jesus says that what she did was just. Why? She used what she had to honor God in the way she was compelled, or called.Not to justify our laptops/expensive purfume or other material things, but having them is not what is wrong (unless a person goes against his or her contious to purchase this obect, if the Spirit is telling one not to, he or she should not. if he or she does, the posesstion will never be enjoyed), it is how we utilize these things. For example, some peoples vocations require 4+ college for them to perform. This takes a lot of money, yet the studies/degrees are required. Paul took somewhere between 3-14 years to prepare for his missional journey.on a slightly different, yet applicable note. I recently went to the National Youth Workers convention in Pittsburgh, PA; while there a speaker (I am unable to find her name right now, but I will look for it when I return home) shared about the history of the Church. She showed how every 500 years the chuch goes through a reform, and we are in that reform right now! What an exciting time to be alive! We have a huge change to awaken church.We have the chance to reveal to people what being a Christian reall means. our society has made Christianity a Sunday morning thing (rather we've made Christianity an UnChristian lifestyle), but God is not just a Sunday god. If we want to show people what being a Christian means we must live the lifestyle. Following the bible, being good stuards of our money and actions.


Brooke Gugel wrote at 8:10pm on December 7th, 2008
The woman who spoke was Phillis Tickle


Matthew Ryan Lehman (Hesston) wrote at 8:12pm on December 7th, 2008
okay, on a totally not serious note, I really wish I could change my last name to 'tickle'

David Lioi wrote at 8:16pm on December 7th, 2008
ooh, ooh! if anybody has roughly five minutes of free time go google "the weight of glory" by c. s. lewis and read the first page or so. It's almost exactly what we are talking about.


Aislinn Joy Dunster (Central Christian Schools) wroteat 8:21pm on December 7th, 2008
i agree with matt. i would really like to change my last name to tickle.


Joy Mo (Mckinley Senior High School) wrote at 8:31pm on December 7th, 2008
Yes, Jonathon. Yes, Ellie Martin.


Glen King (Akron, OH) wrote at 9:31pm on December 7th, 2008
You go Kids!!!! You guys are a breath fresh air. What an awesome next generation. to those of you that know me...I love you guys!!


Austin D. Miller (Bangladesh) wrote at 12:27am on December 8th, 2008
I live in a developing country, see the poor every day and am actually trying to live my life trying to address that poverty. One "trap" I fall into is labeling "the poor" as "the poor" which I think dehumanizes them as individuals in my mind and is a barrier to relationship. I think one thing that a follower of Christ who is from a materially affluent society can reflect on is their poverty in other areas of life and learn some lessons from those who are less materially affluent. Materialism is just as deadly of a disease for those living in material poverty as it is for us. It is a belief that there is not much more to this world than what I can experience...it kills faith...belief in the invisible and the impossible. Being a Christian materialist is an oxymoron. The materially poor on the other hand can celebrate the riches that they do have. The wealth of interdependent relationships, sacrificial hospitality and the list goes on. Do I "feel" closer to God because I am "helping" "the poor"? No. Feelings come and go. I am learning a lot however from the friendships I have with people who are less materially affluent than me. I am trying not to categorize them. My thoughts of late have been heavily influenced by the writings and life of Henry Nouwen. This conversation is great and I believe not in vain if for even one person it is the catalyst for some small change. Thank you for your thoughts one and all.


Brooke Gugel wrote at 3:03pm on December 8th, 2008
" Materialism is just as deadly of a disease for those living in material poverty as it is for us. " Thanks Austin, I completely agree that materiaalism is a deadly disease and you bring up a good point. Ido have a question, for the sake of this discussion which encircles those with a lot of material wealth versus those without that barrier, how should one address this situation without noting a difference between the two?


Philip de Oliveira (Mckinley Senior High School) wrote at 4:02pm on December 8th, 2008
Let's be fair, God is not against comfort and wealth. Throwing out all you have is not only poor stewardship, but it won't make you any more holy as a result. You made very good, if not very widely accepted points. Try to be sure you don't go to extremes, as these counter-culture epiphanies often justify their presence by going overboard.


Jonathon McKenna (Akron, OH) wrote at 4:44pm on December 8th, 2008
"Throwing out all you have is not only poor stewardship, but it won't make you any more holy as a result." Of course nobody is suggesting giving up everything, just everything we don't need. Anything more than what we need is a waste to have. Throwing out all that you don't need, not for the sake of throwing it out, but for the sake of giving something to those who's needs are not met, that is the best sort of material stewardship there is!

Austin D. Miller (Bangladesh) wrote at 8:51pm on December 8th, 2008
In response to Brooke's "how should one address this situation without noting a difference between the two?" I think the difference should be noted in the same way that we note differences in gender. Honor and respect are central. On the wealthy side we have the challenge not to be condescending to those with less education, less "style"... On the flip side, we need to honor those with less and what they have to offer us. In my context it means not refusing a cup of tea or food offered me (whether or not it might give me diarrhea). It may mean kissing "my" rigid schedule goodbye. Living among the poor, I realize the stark power I have in the form of buying power and influence. I cannot take that power for granted or shrug it off. Power is a burden for those following Christ. The more power we have the more we have to surrender it to "THE Power" and use it in His Kingdom.In reply to Philip, "Try to be sure you don't go to extremes, as these counter-culture epiphanies often justify their presence by going overboard." I would disagree. Most of my heroes went to extremes and way overboard not just in what they said in their equivalent of Facebook but in their lifestyle. From Gandhi, to MLK to Mother Teresa, brother Shane, Schindler, even Jesus (ha!). Most of these people probably wouldn't like to see their name on a list like this so I'll stop, but I think you get the picture. I believe we should live in a way that is radical to our culture but normal in the Kingdom. When we pray (if we pray) Thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, what vision do we receive? How do we enter into that. We need to use our imagination. We need prophets, singers, poets and artists to stimulate that imagination, to imagine for us the possibilities of the Kingdom. As an artist myself I too often find that I am promoting myself for reasons that are far from the kingdom. I am struggling to find what using my creativity and imagination in the kingdom will look like. I stumble a lot.


Austin D. Miller (Bangladesh) wrote at 8:53pm on December 8th, 2008
Finally in response to Mr. McKenna, I would like to add that a discussion about contentment is a necessary addition to this conversation. It gives you peace from the unhealthy striving for things. It gives you restraint when you are thinking of creating yet another wishlist on Amazon ( guilty ;-( ), when you are browsing Ebay... It also frees us to be generous with what we have, to hold onto the material very lightly. Thoughts on contentment anyone?


Brooke Gugel wrote at 4:48pm yesterday
I understand, thanks for the answer Austin.As for my thoughts on contentment, i've writen several papers this semsester on 'the good life'. as a quick quick recap: In my Biblical World View Class we discussed Aristotle's view of the good life. Aristotle did not believe that happiness was in amusement, in this discussion amusement is the material stuff, rather to Aristotle Happines is found in the 'final end of human action.' Our materialistic stuff will not give us complete happiness (or contentment) we will stive for more and more stuff which causes us to stress more and more; however, if we strive to follow God we will find contentment in what we posses (and in a materialistic society we may come to desire less of what we own) because we believe God is our provider (Matthew 6:33). If we search for God, God will guide us, and the more we search for God we will learn to swtich our focus from ourselves to other, this seeing others needs as more important than our own ( look at Matthew 22:36-40). If we love our neighbors, we will care for our neighbor, and if everyone cares for everyone else...everyones need will be met. if that summery does justice, and makes sense. I will be posting my papers from this semester on my blog http://beinggugel.blogspot.com/ if anyone is interesting in reading more keep looking I will begin putting them up next week. Oh, I also wanted to copy this conversation onto the blog so that more people can see what we are discussing, if anyone wishes for me to not place his or her contribution to the discussion on the websightt please let me know by tomorrow.


Jonathon McKenna (Akron, OH) wrote at 8:10pm yesterday
Contentment is most definately the answer (or part of it anyways)! That is right in line with what I was thinking.


Brooke Gugel wrote at 8:53pm yesterday
On the note of contentment, 1 Timothy 6: 6-8"Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content."contentment is wealth because when we are content we are happy with what we have and desire no more....materially at least. Spiritually I feel we should always strive to see God more.